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Dude,

Sad story indeed, but tell the whole thing (p.s. you can read it from pino’s link)

but some highlights of a sad (partially told) story..

(i.e. alarmists left out the italics)

From the same article…

Minimum wage increased, and health care costs skyrocketed. The women couldn’t increase the price of the bows without losing sales.

They cut back where they could, but in October, they told workers they were closing the plant and contracting the work out to a factory in Mexico.

Barb, who is 61 now, said it was a terrible day, but she had no choice.

“We fought it for a very long time, probably longer than we should have,” she said. “I’m the last one to say every man for himself, but when it comes to am I going to stay in business or not, who wouldn’t make that choice?”

They were able to salvage 22 jobs locally, mostly in marketing, sales and accounting. But for many of the workers, Thursday was their last day.

 

So, a small business, laid off 228 people.  Crappy.  Really. 

 

But according to your logic she ACT(ed) Locally, and THOUGHT Globally.

 

But she managed to stay in business and that’s a good thing. 

(You’ve got long hair.  And Wee Ones sell barrettes.)

 

So when a major company like AT&T outsources jobs to stay competitive without any interference from the government who do you blame?

 

Who?

 

xoxo flaco.

 

 

 

 
 

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Dear Flaco,

Interesting take on the whole Global Warming thing.  I’ll get to it, I promise.  But in the meantime, check out this story from the STLtoday.com.  The online edition of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

A young mother who hand-painted barrettes to tame her daughter’s unruly locks, turned the hair accessories into a $6 million dollar business.

Barb said she always tried to take care of her employees — she never paid much more than minimum wage, but she provided them with good benefits, including health insurance and a 401(k) plan.

The workers, mostly women, were really more like family, she said. They enjoyed lavish Christmas parties, a monthly snack day, where employees brought in things to munch on, birthday celebrations and year-end bonuses.

To outsiders, the company seemed healthy. In 2007, it had $6 million in sales and sold 2 million hair bows. It employed 100 full-time employees and 150 piece workers, including some in outstate Missouri.

But Wee Ones was in the red, and labor costs were the reason, Barb and Betsy say.

Minimum wage increased, and health care costs skyrocketed. The women couldn’t increase the price of the bows without losing sales.

“We fought it for a very long time, probably longer than we should have,” she said. “I’m the last one to say every man for himself, but when it comes to am I going to stay in business or not, who wouldn’t make that choice?”

The company gave the workers liberal leave to go on job interviews and offered job training and help with filing for unemployment, but most of the workers stayed with Wee Ones until the end.

Some would say that’s a sign of the tough economic conditions, but workers like Marilyn Bockhoff, 54, of St. Peters said they just wanted to hang onto a good thing as long as they can.

So, here is government in action.  An otherwise successful company; one that could compete AND provide their employee with benefits was forced to restructure.  It wasn’t the market place, it wasn’t poor business decisions and it wasn’t disgruntled employees.  It was the government’s attempt to regulate the workplace.  Several hundred people out of work.

Do you think those people would rather be unemployed but with minimum wage increased or employed making what they used to make?  I think I know the answer.

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Pino…

3 things…

1.  “I am not sure how or why you insist that all of these things should come from me when you yourself are not willing to supply them first.”

It’s not a ‘come from you thing’, it’s a ‘come from us thing’.  You know… social responsibility.

I’d pay more, goomba.

2.  “I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again—What, exactly, is your point, your argument and your desired end goal?”

My Point. Everyone should have equal access to health care.

My Argument. Everyone should have equal access to health care.

My desired end goal. Everyone should have equal access to health care.

You are a Goomba.

3.”Dude, what it sounds like you are saying is that NOT everyone can afford the medical care they need [in some cases want].  THAT is a different thing all together.  So, what is it, what is it that you think the evil rich are preventing the innocent poor from achieving?”

#4. AFFORDABLE medical care; basic or not.

Your still a goomba.

So, oh great one, please explain to me why you are more deserving of a medical treatments (that we <as citizens of the United States of America> possess) than someone else  (that we <as citizens of the United States of America> possess)…

Because of; your job, your live choices, your genetics, or pure luck?

Remember you’ve (we’ve) been lucky.  i.e. remember Car Surfing….

So you and I have come from situations that have helped us make (some) better decisions in life.

Sweet.

So the other guy or gal gets… what?

According to you …nada. (Thank means NOTHING.)

I desperately cling on to the fact that you are smarter than the ‘average bear’.

So where is your ability to reason?

I wrote…      “So…     At its root, the lack of health care for all in America is fundamentally a moral issue. The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not have some form of universal health care (defined as a basic guarantee of health care to all of its citizen).  While other countries have declared health care to be a basic right, the United States treats health care as a privilege, only available to those who can afford it. In this sense. health care in America is treated as an economic good like a TV or DVD player, not as a social or public good.”

So once again…

So, oh great one, please morally explain to me why you are more deserving of a medical treatments (that we <as citizens of the United States of America> possess) than someone else  (that we <as citizens of the United States of America> possess)…

Why?

Something to think about

#1…

“Oh, I started paying for my own health care at age 23.  Then I stopped.  Then I started again.  Then, again I stopped.  And then I started again.  But I always, ALWAYS, paid my bills when they came my way.”said Sir Pino the Stubborn.

Flaco the Beautiful replied, “Go to Vegas, Lucky.  Go to Vegas.”

Something to think about

#2…

Seriously.

What makes the difference between a child, a teenager, a twenty-one year old,  a thirty four year old, a fourty six year old, a fifty seven year old, sixty nine year old, and someone who just turned seventy three?

<the 73 year old just had a birthday!>

(i.e.)    Nothing.

Who the f.*& are you to say otherwise? (respectfully)

I’m sensing that you are totally cool with American Government until it (or .. you think) it might affect you...

On that note…  my paranoid friend…

So…. as I’m going into business to form a business that is in the business of:

  1. Creating jobs, not profit
  2. Paying more than market value for said jobs.
  3. Provide complete health care for your employees
  4. Give each of them a ‘66 ’stang.

Why don’t you…go into business to form a business that is in the business of:

  1. Maximizing Profit, not jobs.  It’s more about the stock holders anyway.  F.*& your employees.
  2. Create a business that pays it’s employee’s minimum wage.  (Try to eat …  u bitches!)
  3. Let’s your employees test the market for basic coverage of health care (or in a worst case scenerio provide the government minimum or face the penalties.).
  4. F.*& ’em.  There’s always walking.  That’s like exercise, ….. ‘you obese f.*&s.’.

(4.1/2)  Besides that’s using way to much <oil/gas    i.e.>…  “We have an incredible source of portable energy right now; oil into gas. I think that we should use it. It is incredibly powerful; it is currently accessible and relatively cheap. It’s good at what we need it to do. Why should we abandon it?”  <Oh….   p.s.  we’re running out of that shit>

Really.

Access to health care should be a right and not a privilege.

It’s so awesome that you can only focus on you family and the children.

I can’t.

xoxo flaco.

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Summation

Dear Flaco,

Sorry, have been away. We went down to Disney to let the Mouse pick my pocket.

My note tonight is in two parts; a response to your nonsense and then a closing.

We both seem to agree that minimum wage is completely impossible to live on.

We do agree. I do not recommend living on the minimum wage. Or, for that matter, starting a family on the minimum wage.

IS THAT NOT A SOCIALIST ACT OF REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH?

I am not sure what that has to do with the minimum wage. I think it has more to do with your complaint against Republicans that called Obama’s tax plan Socialist. Please try to stick to one subject. Please. You damn Democrats.

SO WHY ISN’T OUR GOVERNMENT ENSURING (i.e. giving those benefits to ) THAT ALL TAX PAYING/WORKING CITIZENS TO GET FOOD, RENT ASSISTANCE (i.e. housing), AND HEALTH CARE ?????

Aren’t those basic standards of living?

Oh wait.  They are.  my bad.

And our government enforces them.  Eating (FOOD STAMPS).  Housing (H.U.D.).  Health Care(Medicare).  And every other thing I forgot.  I still think it’s not enough.

DAMN DEMOCRATS!

Don’t forget … I’m O.K. with this. I do believe that all Americans can/should  have these basics.  I’m still upset if they don’t work for them (really upset)  but I do believe that we all should have a system to ensure that we as american citizens have access (your better term) to these basic rights.

Dude.  Really.

Flaco, that rant is one for the record books. See here

In a perfect world …. an employer … not the government should take the responsibility to TRAIN/EDUCATE

No, the worker should take responsibility to train/educate himself. Sheesh.

Isn’t it the mantra of the Grand Old Party less government?

Look, its simple, just LESS government. If you think that you can get qualified help to run your lemonade stand for a dime an hour, go pay it. If not, pay what you have to too get that help. And, from the employee side….like I always said “Minimum wage…..minimum effort.” Slices both ways.

i.e social responsibility?

The democrats have a funny view of social responsibility. They are FOR it when they are taking MY money, but really really NOT for it when they are talking about their own money. For example, if you are so happy to just give away your money in taxes to the feds, what % of your income did you give to minimum wage earners this past year?

If the employers focused on making their employees happy

Employers should focus on VALUE. Happy employees is a part of value, but really, when does it end? I could pay Pete 80 bucks an hour, he’d be happy as hell. Still not qualified, but happy. That’s just dumb!

Do you honestly believe that a business would do this without a governing body?

Yes. In fact, you do it where you work. You admitted it. To get qualified workers to work for your slave company, you have to pay much much more than minimum wage.

Okay, part deuce:

Look, my heart goes out to people that find themselves living on minimum wage or, worse, supporting a family on it. Horrible. So, we can look to fix it. An easy fix is just to raise it. But wait, lets look. 98.9% of the people making minimum wage don’t need the raise…..they live in families making about 38k or more a year. So, yeah, I wanna help Johnny strugglin’ to make ends meet feedin’ two kids on 5.15. I just don’t think that the answer is giving EVERY SINGLE BODY a raise, especially when most don’t need it and some don’t want it.

Lets try something different. Lets educate Johnny. Or move him to a place where work is better paid. Or something! Just don’t make the only choice that is both the easiest and the worst.

Work harder. Work better.

Warmest reagards,

-pino

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One last volley…

Pino,

We are looking at a problem.  Differently.  So lets shoot for middle ground.

We both seem to agree that minimum wage is completely impossible to live on.  I know you think so based on the fact you are ADAMANT about not even acknowledging the challenge of living on that wage yourself for even one week.  <u r chicken poop  j/k>

(p.s. our beloved <seriously> government lists poverty level for one person to be $10,590 a year  – $5 dollars an hour.)  ( I was wrong – but not surprised)

Oh and touche .. this nugget … You stated ” most certainly NOT the role of government to afford basic standards of living”.

O.k.    But some one who is making minimum wage will qualify for food stamps (Federal Program – run by the states) , HUD  (subsidized housing – by the way to qualify; $17,100 or less (i.e. lower than minimum wage) a year in Seattle, $15,000 year (i.e. again)  in Durham <county> ), and let’s toss in medicade ( almost anyone).  My not-so-broke-ass-and even-less-educated-ass can’t think of more. But I’m sure there are more benefits… IS THAT NOT A SOCIALIST ACT OF REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH?

So now I’ll contradict myself here…

SO WHY ISN’T OUR GOVERNMENT ENSURING (i.e. giving those benefits to ) THAT ALL TAX PAYING/WORKING CITIZENS TO GET FOOD, RENT ASSISTANCE (i.e. housing), AND HEALTH CARE ?????

Aren’t those basic standards of living?

Oh wait.  They are.  my bad.

And our government enforces them.  Eating (FOOD STAMPS).  Housing (H.U.D.).  Health Care(Medicare).  And every other thing I forgot.  I still think it’s not enough.

DAMN DEMOCRATS!

Don’t forget … I’m O.K. with this. I do believe that all Americans can/should  have these basics.  I’m still upset if they don’t work for them (really upset)  but I do believe that we all should have a system to ensure that we as american citizens have access (your better term) to these basic rights.

Dude.  Really.

So really.

In a perfect world …. an employer … not the government  should take the responsibility to TRAIN/EDUCATE AND PAY and ensure the well being of their employees, so they would not be subsidized by the government.  i.e. the employer  GET’S WHAT THEY PAY FOR.     Isn’t it the mantra of the Grand Old Party …less government?

IF THE BUSINESS TOOK CARE OF IT’S EMPLOYEE’S THE SAME AS IT’S STOCKHOLDERS WE’D BE TALKING ABOUT SOMTHING ELSE…. without a government or union… i.e social responsibility?

If the employers focused on making their employees happy  i.e. making a living wage? wouldn’t they get that return on productivity, sales, competitiveness among peers and service to their customer base?

So Let’s look at two president LBJ (medicare) and FDR (The FDIC, Social Security, Fair Labor Standards Act, and created the (your hated) minimum wage).  Both Democrats. Both reinforce that big business (i.e. the employers) can’t just play to the market (i.e. supply/demand)  and not also play the basic needs of the citizens/employees….  SO I.E. THE GOVERNMENT STEPS IN.

Do you honestly believe that a business would do this without a governing body?  DO YOU?

Dude… it looks like the democrats have it out for you…. (your) Insured Bank Deposits, <despicable> Minimum Wage, (who needs it) Social Security (that crazy program for the well to do rich people), and that whole 2nd Bill of Rights thing  (you know… for the democratic elite).

CRAZY DEMOCRATS!

The middle ground is… <I’ll let you toss it out there…>

I love and adore your wife and kids… you’re just o.k…. xoxo  billy

p.s.  Let’s play with global (democrat on democrat) warming… kisses

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Dear Flaco,

I feel that I am going to have to correct you in some cases and just point out some things that I think are crazy in others.

One of the first things that you say is this:

it is not the responsibility of the government to support the working class, it is the responsibility of the employer.

It most certainly is NOT the responsibility of the employer to support the working class.  It is the role of the working class to support the working class.  The role of the employer is to make a profit.  By doing so, he continues to hire said working class.  And, if the profit increases, the need for even more working class is created.

Then, further, this nugget:

the necessity of the government to ensure that all American citizens can afford basic standards of living.

Not only is it not the role of the employer to support the working class, it is NOT the role of the government to afford basic standards of living.  I would agree that it is the government’s role to ensure that everyone has the same access to the basic standards of living as everyone else.  But certainly, the government does not ensure anything of the kind.

Note:  You may think it should, see here for an example.

And then this one:

employers get HUGE tax breaks

Data shows that as the tax rate increases, the revenue generated by the Federal Government goes DOWN.  Yes, literally, as the tax rate is lowered, you create more jobs.  In fact, Obama was asked about this:

MR. GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased. The government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down. So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?

SENATOR OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I’ve said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.

Dude, what in the hell is THAT all about?  When taxes are low, revenues go up.  When they are high, revenues go down.

And your last question of the first post:

As Americans shouldn’t we have a decent standard of living?

We should have access to a decent standard of living.

Now, to your second post.  But before I do, I have to step away for a glass of wine.

Ok, I am back, and happier, and in a better mood.  But you are still wrong.  Funny how even wine can’t fix you.

I know you’re PRO republican…

You make it sound like that’s a bad thing.  Actually, I am PRO fiscal conservative.  PRO social liberal.  I would agree with you that in recent history, the Grand Ol’ Party has failed us who so love her.

Imagine all of those cities and all of those people making minimum wage. $13,624.00 Dollars a year (before tax).

You forget, or failed to read, that of all those people in all of those cities, fully 61% are only working a part job.  Typically, these are not the people supporting a family.  Further, 86% of your city’s population would be living with a relative, a working spouse or would be single without kids.  More than half are part of a family or household making at least 200% of the poverty line.  Flaco, only looking at the minimum wage does not give you a list of poor people.

Does that seem like very very few people?

Yes, 1.1% of a population seems like a small number to me.

Look, I get where you are going with this.  I suspect that you don’t really care about what the minimum wage is at, rather, you care that there are some number of people that are making less money than they need to live a minimum quality life.  And I agree with you.  There are people that are trying to support a family and are struggling because they don’t make enough to do that.

And I am interested in fixing that.

I just don’t see raising the minimum wage as a solution that is sound.  And here is why:

  1. When you raise the minimum wage, you are giving money to people who don’t need it.  See above.  There are a LOT of people who live in families that don’t need the help that we are trying to give here.
  2. If a person has 100k to invest and he can get 2% in the bank, do you think that he will start a business that will give him 2.5%?  Think he will risk his money and spend his time to get an extra .5%?  Me either.  How about, say…..5%?  Probably not.  But lets say that the number is 10%.  He will risk his money and spend his time when he can get back 10%.  This means he will lock into a margin of 10%, anything less and he will quit business or, or, new owners don’t make the jump
  3. Now, if you raise the cost of labor, you have eaten into that 10%.  The owner is going to raise prices.  This is inflation; the cost of goods has risen for no good reason AND not everybody got the raise that the minimum wage guy did.
  4. Or, he reduces the amount of labor he buys (people that he hires).  This means someone has to get fired.  And, most likely, the owner is going to rank his guys and let go the least valuable of them.  Oh, by the way, pay follows value, so the guy getting fired is most likely the guy making–you guessed it, minimum wage.  The very guy we are trying to help just got fired.

If you want to help the guy making minimum wage, start by asking yourself why he can’t get a job for MORE than the minimum wage.  Is it education?  Lack of skills?  Perhaps lack of jobs in the market?  Most likely, you’ll find it to be a combination of the three.  Regardless, the answer to our common dilemma is to address why he can’t get a better job, not overpay him for the one he already has.

And yeah, my heart goes out to that guy who has worked and worked hard.  Who has sacrificed for his family and for his future and because of bad luck, has to work for minimum wage.  But Flaco, from a Macro view, there are very very very few people in that situation.  To risk breaking the system by artifically inflating the pay he gets is missing the point.  ACT local; THINK global.  Find why this guy is in the situation he is in and remedy THAT.  The market works.

Regards,

-pino

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You …. dumbass (XOXO)!

Pino,

So first I shall answer the questions/comments you posed…

I know you’re PRO republican… (and yeah…  we all want someone to have a home, family and success.  Even those shifty democrats <even centrists>.).

#’s #’s #’s …. you math guys are all the same.

In 2005 1.9 million workers, blah blah xoxo blah blah thanks google blah blah rush limbaugh blah blah fox news blah blah etc can any one hear me blah blah …  1.1% of the united states of america earn the minimum wage.

OK.

In 2007 that’s the population of Seattle WA (594,210),  and the beautiful city of Raleigh NC(375,806)  AND let’s not forget Durham NC (217,847) and just to include Minnesota… amazing Minneapolis MN(377,392)   AND lets not forget historic St. Paul MN (277,251).

But not done yet … Lets throw in Miami FL  (409,719), Toledo OH  (295,029),Buffalo NY (272,632), and Lincoln NB (248,744).

Imagine all of those cities and all of those people making minimum wage. $13,624.00 Dollars a year (before tax).

So you wrote “My point is that very very few people earn the minimium wage and of those who do, they almost always get a raise after 6 months.”

So after six months of banquet frozen dinners (10 for 10 dollars!) you mean that all of the citizens of Seattle WA., Minneapolis MN., Raleigh NC., Durham NC., St. Paul MN., Miami FL., Toledo OH., Buffalo NY., and Lincoln NB.  get a raise?  WOW. WOWWY WOW WOW!   Maybe Lean Cuisine is in their future!

YUMMY!

And since you like numbers so much the US Census Bureau states that the poverty level for a family of four (with two kids) is $21,027 a year.

So i’m guessing from the republican side that all’s good.

It must be if you won’t even respond to the challenge.  I mean Come on! Look at of the numbers! So come on, I challenge you to live on minimum wage for 1 month.  And because I know you’ll say NO, i’ll go even further… Go One Week.  That’s 66 Bucks.  No tax.  One Week for Gas and Food.  (I’d take the bet gas prices are low… probably for the last time….)

Pre Post Script – Based on the average starting wage of retail in the community (north seattle)… average workers make 10.15 an hour.  We pay more.  As far as other retailers… ask them.

So as you process all of this..

I know that you will mentally say “I’ve been poor/broke/etc.   I don’t need to do billy’s dumb challenge…

So chew on this ….Seattle WA, Minneapolis MN, Raleigh NC, Durham NC, St.Paul MN, Miami FL, Toledo OH, Buffalo NY, Lincoln NB, and (for sentimental reasons) Include  NEW ORLEANS LA ( 239,124). Thats less than 1.1% of the US population …ALL AT MINIMUM WAGE.    Does that seem like very very few people?

Does It?

xoxo flaco

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